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Survey Accurate Mapping and Systems

Survey Accurate Graphically Enhanced Systems (SAGES)

The Marriage of GIS and Land Surveying August 30, 2008
Posted by bahadirkhan in Calismalar (Studies), English.
Tags: geographical information systems, gis technologies, land surveying, Trimble Geomatics Office
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go to gbreisch.com for more information on how and why SAGES is so improtant

go to gbreisch.com for more information on how and why SAGES is so improtant

Too often the GIS professional and the surveyor are at odds; a hoity-toity GIS guy looks askance at a muddy-booted surveyor who wants to pin him down on accuracy and boundary issues, and the surveyor gets exasperated with the GIS guy who’s defining more parcels in an afternoon than he’ll work on in a month, but who can’t be bothered to think about metadata concerning monumentation or record survey information. Perhaps some surveyors have the sinking feeling that they missed the boat when it comes to GIS, that a new technology catering to measurement and boundary experts should really have added more to the bottom line of land surveyors than seems to be the case.

But things are changing. As GIS matures, survey grade accuracy is becoming more important and the value of a reliable boundary layer is increasingly obvious. This creates opportunities for land surveying firms, and Flatirons, Inc. of Boulder, Colorado is a good example of a company taking advantage. Flatirons (named for the Flatirons, an iconic mountain range above the city of Boulder) does “Surveying, Engineering & Geomatics” (and yes, they do list surveying before engineering). GIS design and implementation is a big part of their business, so this is a company that has had to think a lot about how surveyors and GIS types can work together. “GIS professionals aren’t currently licensed,” says J.B. Guyton, a licensed surveyor and CEO of Flatirons, “and the original authorship of GIS documents is important to surveyors. Chad and the other young guys here are helping us bring together the facts on the ground with the relevant legalities, and creating GIS boundaries that can better withstand court challenges.” `Chad’ is Chad McFadden, a senior project manager at Flatirons, who adds, “We’re both talking about the same points, after all–if we can unify this, we’ll be bringing the good things about surveying into GIS.”

A recent project for the City of Wheat Ridge, Colorado gave Flatirons the opportunity to try something new: Gather GIS data at survey grade accuracy, in one pass. If things went well, Flatirons would be able to move ahead with projects involving boundary monumentation. As Guyton says, “We’re figuring out how to marry these two disciplines, ancient and modern.”

New Tech Makes Marriage Possible
Wheat Ridge was working on a critical component of their new GIS, the storm sewer layer. The existing system wasn’t working. “They had paper map books,” explains McFadden, “but they were more wrong than right. Most of the system information seemed to be in one guy’s head, and he was too busy to update map books. So, we started to work on solutions.”

Wheat Ridge was working in concert with Jefferson County 911 program and all of the county’s cities. This made Flatirons’ job easier, as the county had standardized on ESRI software, settled on layer schemes, and worked through datum issues. “We started by converting an old storm water map to GIS. There was no metadata, and it was very inaccurate. Some points had been sketched in, some maybe surveyed, and some came from design–and there was no way to tell which was which. And it was incomplete; when we checked a few, we’d pop lids and find runs that weren’t shown.”

Obviously, new fieldwork was needed, and since the project would basically be an “as-built with a GIS deliverable,” per McFadden, the work had to be to sub-centimeter horizontal accuracy. This was new territory. GIS fieldwork requires standardized collection of a great deal of data. Gathering techniques have to be efficient and, well, easy: with more than 2,500 intakes, manholes, and outflows in Wheat Ridge, all with multiple attributes, crews would have to move fast and there wouldn’t be time to reinvent the wheel every day. By contrast, getting to sub-centimeter typically requires a certain fastidiousness, and the kind of confidence that comes with checking and rechecking. Typically, getting both types of information would take two passes–could Flatirons be fast and fastidious?

Not everyone thought so. “We came up with a method to capture all the data in one pass, at the required accuracy, and that’s what we based our bid on. There were two other bidders who said our way wouldn’t work. But with some help from Trimble, we proved them wrong.”

The help from Trimble came in two forms: a Trimble® VRS NowTM Network RTK Service, and a custom file output from Trimble Geomatics Office (TGO) software, simplifying uploading of data into the ESRI GIS.

The VRS Now Service in Colorado is the first in the nation to feature low band radio, in addition to cellular telephony, as a way to establish links with reference stations. For Devin Kowbuz, another Project Manager at Flatirons, this was a decisive advantage. “In the city, packet data takes a back seat to voice,” he explains. “This can affect our ability to stay connected.” McFadden adds, “The low band is privately owned by Trimble, and it can’t be trumped; we weren’t tied to a cell phone company, or limited by their network. The low band is good everywhere VRS Now is accurate.” Since base stations didn’t have to be set up for RTK, crews could get right to work and about an hour and a half a day was saved, versus conventional RTK. “We bid the job knowing we had the advantage of VRS Now,” says McFadden, “To hop out of the truck, grab a rod, and be surveying? That’s impressive.”

Another issue was data output. As sold, the Trimble Geomatics Office didn’t quite meet project GIS data requirements. McFadden wanted a collection process that “forced crews to gather the data,” while limiting entries to a `data dictionary’ compatible with the GIS scheme. And since 2,500 nodes with multiple attributes (such as direction, invert, composition, and pipe size) generates a lot of data, he wanted a streamlined download procedure to save office time. “I talked to Trimble, and they sent a developer right to our office who wrote us a piece of custom code for TGO that allowed us to output a single table that integrated flawlessly into the GIS.” The code also enforced the desired data collection routine and automated the lengthy collection process making it, if not easy, at least routine.
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http://gbreisch.com/gwb/ is my main menu page where you can view articles on SAGIS & SAGES for Survey Accurate (SA) and Graphically Enhanced Systems to manage Survey Monument Data related to coordinates tied into Control that relates to the true position on this earth and that can someday be viewed on Google Earth just like other POI (Points of Interest) and data and can be “popped” up in a window with all the related names, pictures, coordinates, datum and system specification of that monument or virtual point on our globe as a Global Surveyor’s dream come true. How is that for a long sentence!!!!

It is time for surveyor’s to give up their narrow minded ways and contribute to this system, make an name for themselves to be pioneers and have points named after them to be used forever and for the better of the whole world’s economy and progess.

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02/10/2008 - Posted by | geographical information systems, gis technologies, land surveying, Trimble Geomatics Office, land surveyor, maps

5 Comments »

  1. SEE http://gbreisch.com/gwb/images/stories/gis/ngsonge.jpg AND http://gbreisch.com/gwb/images/stories/gis/trsonge.jpg
    NOW, How do I insert these to images to show two actual uses of Google Earth with SAGES KML inserts that will become “layers” on Google Earth or available on the internet to the public for rapid find of Survey Accurate or related information overlays on aerial maps with pop up bubbles that tell you the basic data and are clickable to find extensive data like on most GIS or GES viewable maps with many layer options. How is that for a long sentence.

    Comment by Gary Breisch | 21/12/2008 | Reply

  2. Wow, just realized that I can run my cursor or hand over the above image links and “SNAP” will show me the image and take me to the image. GRAND!!!

    Comment by Gary Breisch | 21/12/2008 | Reply

  3. I got the two GE aerials to show up on this blog page but have not figured out how to insert them in a post like this. On the TRS on GE, click on the link above the SNAP insert that should pop up when you run you mouse cursor over the image so you can see a larger version of it. If you were on Google Earth and had this loaded, you would see a section grid when you zoom into the Township-Range grid and see a small dot in the center of each section grid. That is a rough center of section from the BLM data that Bill Clark Earth Point 208.860.6311 at http://www.earthpoint.us/Townships.aspx can provide you after you load Google Earth (GE) on you computer and bring it up when connected to the internet to get a location on the globe of your choice. If you are in OKLAHOMA, like me, then the grid will form. That point will open up when you run your mouse cursor on it to show you the basic data and give you an option to click a link in theat bubble to get more data on that point.

    Caution because these section location points for the center of the section are just approximate. Their is an OKGIS online map available for a TRS lookup to but not as graphically pleasing with current aerial overlays and layers as GE at the time of this post. I hope to see the OKGIS site, the Oklahoma State University (OSU) site, and others add improvements to show similar details as GE.

    The other image does show SAGES points that include the Degree of Precision, both vertical and horizontal, on the point detail bubble and in the data sheets you can pull up by following the links in the bubble to the NGS page. This is more like what I want combined with the TRS grid for every point the our “Oklahoma Certified Corner Records” (OCCR) show but with SAGES State Plane Coordinates (SPC) that are certified as to the basis of the SPC point and what references the surveyor used such as a CORS data point from the NGS OKTU control data that I use often in the Sand Springs – Tulsa Area and beyond.

    The Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) program that comes with the very reasonably priced Survey Accurate GPS ProMark3 RTK units has a provision to click a link that will automatically download the CORS data and adjust your Survey Points that you gather with Static or Raw Data that you turn on and save automatically with your RTK sessions to give you good accuracy SPC to add to the SAGES network.

    This information could be shared or funded in such a way to set a good SAGES point for every section corner (I am including all monuments for each section related certified point such as quarter corners that make up a real section). Meanwhile, independent “pay for subscription” websites may take on this task and include submitted data in their Graphical Display and data sheet access online like HubTack.com has done their OCCR and other States. Organizations, like the Oklahoma Society or Land Surveyors (OSLS – osls.org) and other Land Surveyor orgainiztions might do well by subsidizing these subscription sites and the surveyors that contribute SAGES points to re-build and buils a better network of reliable points that are more easily perpetuated insteas of reliance on the more primative forms of evidence documentation that now exists with the OCCR system at the date of this post.

    Now if you find an OCCR with a SPC mostly available with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT), you will note that the basis of the SPC given is not standardized. The basis of the SPC needs to be provided in the form of a data sheet similar to NGS data sheets. If they are using a CORS NGS control point like OKTU or others, that needs to be stated and include information on what program and datum they are using. I have talked to them on the phone and corresponded with some of the ODOT people to find reference to an ODOT SPC system that may be different than the SPC that is based on NGS CORS (reference control stations)as mentioned above. Some of those guys are very helpful and nice and some are not so nice with communications and cooperation. I have seen numerous articles on States like Colorado who have been developing good SAGIS and SAGES like data and maps for their state that are accessible to the public to vastly help their economic growth. I have heard form other farsighted surveyors, like the late David Arnoldd, who, back in 2004 said that other States paid Registered Land Surveyors (RLS)up to $350 per Survey Accurate Certified Corner Record Point (SACCRP) to build their system and encorage RLS to contribute to it.

    I have not researched this enough. I need help on this. Please post any findings that support the above subjects. Someone out there, maybe T. Boone Pickens with the “PickensPlan” (http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/), could be the one to make this dream come true to have a SAGES in place for each and every TRS OCCR or SACCRP in Oklahoma and other States. The developer and builder receives much of the benefits of a good easy to access system. So this will come in handy when building Power Lines and Wind Turbines along with all the economically enhancing projects that helps us all live better and prosper.

    Comment by Gary Breisch | 21/12/2008 | Reply

  4. Good information. Hope to visit again

    Comment by HeinNania | 20/05/2009 | Reply

    • Thanks – input and suggestions on how to populate Google Earth with Survey Accurate data is welcome. Now if I could just get some funding to do more of it!!!!

      Please reply to confirm receipt to Gary Breisch – Registered Land Surveyor – Email direct: gary@gbreisch.com – Address direct: 3001 S. 137th W. Ave. – Sand Springs, OK 74063-5022 (36d07’14.37″N, 96d08’43.37″W, EL 665) (36.12065833,-96.14540833) – Fax direct: 918-289-2417 – main phone best for incoming calls U.S. Cellular cell: 918-948-5263 – backup phone or mobile to mobile AT&T cell: 918-261-4279 – Website direct: http://www.gbreisch.com – - Please visit my website http://www.gbreisch.com to promote the Statewide Survey Accurate Geographical Information System (GIS) that will do more for our economy that any other investment in State or Private funding. “Do You Know Where Your Property Corners Are?” Find out how to answer this and more at http://www.gbreisch.com.

      Thanks and Positively, Gary. =================== www . g breisch . com =================== Want to always have my latest info?

      Comment by gbreisch | 28/05/2009 | Reply


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